It doesn't sound very twue Master/slaverly does it? Maybe it's not, who knows (I'm sure someone out there thinks that they do).
Alpha doesn't punish me anymore.
Yes, there is usually instant discipline, but according to him, it's not punishment. You figure that one out on your own lol.
Send me the memo when you're done unraveling the mysteries of Masters.
I was sure that my brain circuitry was frying during that first few months. I may have even occasionally been a
Yea...Once the man has made up his mind, no amount of snark or begging is going to change it.
But I have to admit that this whole "No punishment for lil," approach has accomplished a couple of things--there is no more acting out to feed a need for pain.
And I spend more time obsessing about correcting my own mistakes, and far less time thinking about what he should be doing about them.
I do still struggle in regards to equating punishment with care though--if he doesn't punish me, does he actually give a crap what I do?
Oh hush--logic has no place here!
His reply to such statements is usually something along the lines of, "Of course I care. I just want you to be a good girl and do as you're told because you want to please me, not because you'll be punished if you don't."
I have to admit, that sounds terribly logical...
But wait! I cannot allow something as clear and basic as logic to make sense! Oh no...Because then I would feel silly about my illogical little mind.
I do still have what I so affectionately named, "The punishment book." Of course, naming it that didn't magically bring back the punishment system. But it has helped me to remember the things I forget and hold myself accountable for them.
Though I must say, holding oneself accountable is a hell of a lot more difficult than having someone else do it for you.
U know i think what we hv is kinda like that. Btw whats twue? (Like i need another initialism!) call it curiosity.
ReplyDeleteThere is an instant correction- a look or a swat or a gesture. But no punishment. Bikss said the same thing. Do what u do cos its right n pleasing. Not cos u'll b punished if u dont.
Yes sometimes i hate logic too. Good post. As always.
Fondles,
Deletethank you!
"twue"-irritable speak inspired by the people who like to run around saying other people are doing it wrong and aren't "true" M/s.
And isn't logic just so damn irritating sometimes?
That's the way it should be, because you want to not because you have to. To me, that is not submission or whatever you want to call it, that's necessity or self preservation.
ReplyDeletesunnygirl,
DeleteI'm still not sure that it isn't easier the other way lol. But yes, I do think that there's something to be said for the motivation behind ones actions.
Though I must admit to missing the shedding of guilt that tori mentioned...
lol what is the twue way?
ReplyDeleteSeriously though i think sometimes its about finding out what works, trying different tactics to see what produces the best results.
We do use punishment in our dynamic but i very rarely get punished because im perfect (ok so thats a blatant lie but hey its nice to have delusions lol) its because i like doing as im told, however sometimes i behave in a way that displeases him and i get punished.
Punishment is not something i ever seek out because its not nice but he punishes me for 2 reasons really, one because its a demonstration of his displeasure and two i need it to shed myself of the guilt, i will ask for punishment if i feel its deserved and he prefers this as it shows that i acknowledge what i have done.
Ok im rambling a bit now but yea it works for some and not for others, i cant say i have acted out intentionally for punishment (although in the beginning yes until it became clear that it wasnt 'fun') because i equate punishment with his displeasure and pleasing him is very important to me.
x
tori,
Deleteoh doesn't everyone know the "twue" way??
Yeh, I have no idea. I'm inclined to think that it's pretty much to each there own and try not to fuck it all up lol.
Oh how could I leave that out of this post--how I do miss the sense of absolution...
Lol--I would love to claim that there's no punishment around here because I'm prefect. Unfortunately, I have spent a couple of years documenting just how imperfect I am.
My Master, in the first few months of experimenting with what worked on me, set things up so that I don't have to misbehave for the fun of getting pain. When I want it, I can ask for it. When he punishes me, it's not fun and it often has an element of denial of something I wanted. He figured out pretty quick that just spankings weren't going to work as punishment for a slave who loves and gets off on spankings.
ReplyDeleteKsst,
Deletethere's something to be said for having to ask for what you want. For me, it's extremely difficult. Mostly because I then have to admit what I want, and that is sometimes at odds with what I think I should want. If that makes any sense...
Heeheeheehee!!! "Mawwage... mawwage is wat bwings us togeva today."
ReplyDeleteI must watch Princess Bride because of your 'twue', again. Thank you.
Senator,
DeleteI used to love that movie! Haven't seen it in ages...My children are spoiled by the current standards of medieval and sci-fi animation--much to my dismay, the eldest dubbed it "cheesy" lol. Okay, maybe it is, but still!
I was nodding right along with this post. Apparently H read the same book on "How to be a Master." If I don't submit to him for the sake of doing so, what's the point? (In his mind.)
ReplyDeleteI see your point that people will brat out of a need for pain out in blog land all the time, and taking that ability away actually seems to increase communication, at least in our house, it does.
And it is hard to feel affirmation without punishment, I agree with you there. Oh hell, I am just retyping your whole post, so I will stop.
Yes! What you said! So true! :)
Kitty,
Deletein all fairness, the post could probably use a good retyping lol.
Lord knows, I could use all the help I can get with increased communication--it's so obviously never been my strong point.
Part of me really wants to find, and sneak a peak at that "How to" manual...Then the other part has to admit that it probably wouldn't be nearly as fun...
We took a break from punishments for a while, but only because we were going about it all wrong (for us). Since we've started doing punishments again, he's only punished me once. I asked for it, and we both posted a blog about it. Similar to what someone else said, if you get off on pain, pain should not be your punishment. It's not supposed to be fun. BUT he doesn't do punishments to scare me into behaving or to be mean. I'm not afraid of him, and I'm not afraid of breaking his rules. My OWN disappointment in myself for disappointing him is my worst punishment. In our minds, he punishes me only when I seem to have forgotten my place and to help us find closure in a situation and help us move on. He did a great blog about it, imo.
ReplyDeleteI totally get why some chose not to do punishments, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It certainly doesn't mean your M/s dynamic is wrong. Whatever works for you guys! :)
Kitty FMW,
DeleteThe whole "Doing it wrong" thing is a bit of a joke around here lol.
I don't think that you necessarily have to fear someone in order for punishment to be effective. Though I will admit to a certain level of fear regarding some implements lol.
We do use punishments in our dynamic, but I understand the logic (sorry - Lol) you should do it because you want to, and because it's the right thing to do, not to avoid punishment. My hubby tells me the same thing.
ReplyDeleteRoz,
DeleteIt's okay--I'm getting used to people showing up and agreeing with him lol.
And yes, the logic does make sense...But if one isn't logical, sense is not a requirement lol.
they probably all went to the same Dom summer camp. LOL
ReplyDeletestill, i enjoyed the post and the comments. thanks for sharing.
Fondles,
DeleteThat's it--Summer camp! How could I have missed such a long absence...Lol.
Thank you.
I can relate to Alpha's logic. Punishments can be incredibly difficult to dole out sometimes. I don't want to punish Kitty, especially because most of the time she's doing her absolute best, and when she does makes mistakes, she's usually harder on herself than I ever would be. This makes punishment a very rare thing, and I prefer it that way.
ReplyDeleteMr. Woods,
DeleteAlpha has shown some varying emotions during punishment--ranging from satisfaction to regret.
I agree that it's best for punishment to be rare. If it's not, then perhaps something would need to be reevaluated or changed.
I get the "harder on herself" bit--I do it too.
Thanks for stopping by.
Lil,
ReplyDeleteIt is absolutely difficult to ask for what I want. Sometimes it seems like it would be better/easier to say nothing, but that is not what he wants. He likes to hear me ask, sometimes even beg.
ksst,
DeleteAlpha likes it that way too. Unfortunately, that doesn't make it easier!
We don't do 'punishments'either, as in what I'd call 'real' punishments - ones that really aren't pleasant, not a scene or an 'excuse' for playing (which we don't do either, actually).
ReplyDeleteIt isn't an appealing concept for either of us, it's not at all how either of us or our dynamic works and I do struggle a little bit (in a very private way) with reading people's blogs who do practice it.
However, a lot of these comments have talked about the need to have the guilt concluded in order to move on, and how punishment is needed to achieve that, which has made me understand it a whole lot more! It also explains to me why punishment doesn't work for us - we achieve this conclusion and moving on in other ways, punishment wouldn't do it for us.
Having said ALL that - I do now feel a need for consequences. So i still have free choice and may sometimes choose to break a rule or agreement for a myriad of reasons. It doesn't shake at his faith in me, or involve guilt or disappointment on either side, but it will now result in it being acknowledge in a consequence - I now get more feedback on my actions, which is relief as I've been the one, really, to lead into this dynamic and also to suggest/initiate various rules and so on.
mamacrow,
DeleteIn my opinion, punishment does wonders for dissipating guilt (mine anyways), which is probably one of the reasons he stopped...
Regardless of different stances on punishments, I do think that feedback is really important because without it, we don't have as much to base future behavior and choices on.
"Though I must say, holding oneself accountable is a hell of a lot more difficult than having someone else do it for you. "
ReplyDeleteAMEN and Hallelujah!!! I could not agree more. I am having a hard time myself with this, as BD is less about "pain as punishment" than he is about "pain as fun". I also have a problem with WANTING to please him, but not WANTING to force myself to face uncomfortable situations...having HIM hold me accountable for that is so much easier than having to do it myself! LOL!
Cassaundra,
DeleteIt really can be difficult to hold oneself accountable. But I think that there is value in that because it helps us to be mindful of our actions and behavior.
I think our husbands are twins lol. Mine thinks along those same exact lines. hugs
ReplyDeletetrazuredpet,
Deletelol--they must be sharing a manual.
It was a terribly difficult adjustment to make...
My husband will not buy into the punishment dynamic, but I have to say there's a piece of me that's still curious to experience it...
ReplyDeleteRenee,
DeleteI now have a better understanding of the reasoning behind the no punishment approach.
Turns out that it's an individual thing based on the Dominants choices. Go figure lol.
lil, after reading your post, I got the impression that you actually miss being punished sometimes. Oh, not as in you'd necessarily act out to get the opportunity, but as in you miss the structure and quid-pro-quo that a punishment dynamic provides. Is that impression correct?
ReplyDeleteJake,
Deleteyes, your impression is correct. I also kind of miss the sense of absolution that comes with it.
Though, after months, I do have a better understanding of the reasoning behind his approach...