I was replying to a comment this morning when I started thinking about the symbiosis of D/s, or I guess, any healthy relationship really (I am not trying to say that all D/s relationships are healthy, because I do not believe that they are).
To me, D/s, and S/m are expressions of symbiosis. If they aren't, then the relationship is not mutually beneficial.
I think that is one of the reasons that some people struggle so much in relationships where one partner identifies as Dominant or submissive, and the other partner attempts to fill the role created by the other's identity (I swear if you drink copious amounts of coffee and cross your eyes twice, that will probably make sense).
I thrive on Alpha's Dominance. It feeds my submission, which in turn increases my submission which feeds his Dominance and around we go. It makes us...Good.
Alpha has said that he wouldn't enjoy giving me pain if I didn't get off on it. And it's a funny circle itself because I can see it from a couple different angles of experience--in the beginning, I liked receiving pain and he would give it. But only because I liked it. Not because he enjoyed inflicting it. Then as time went by, he discovered that he liked giving it.
And I think that created a bit of internal conflict for him because we are taught that it is wrong to inflict pain on the people we love. And his sadistic streak turns out to run a bit deeper than either of us had previously thought. Though happily, we both find the control aspect of ttwd to be more attractive.
The thing is, it changed completely when he began to allow himself to enjoy giving the pain I wanted to receive. It became...Better. Like a form of symbiosis, my pleasure receiving fuels his pleasure inflicting pain, which in turn makes being on the receiving end far more expansive and enjoyable.
He doesn't like inflicting pain if it's not turning me on. I don't get as turned on unless he's getting off on giving it.
Some posts should probably not be written before the second cup of coffee...
If there was not some sort of symbiosis, ttwd would not be healthy. Any relationship that is not symbiotic loses its beneficial aspects. I think that's one of the key differences between abuse and BDSM (though that's a half written post of it's own)...
Yes. God, yes. This is perfect. There are so many times when I don't really know if I'm getting off from the pain or from the knowledge that he's getting off on inflicting it...
ReplyDeleteTamar, interesting circle isn't it?
DeleteA clarification or perhaps extension on the comment I made yesterday. I did not mean to suggest that every single request and action must be enjoyed in and of it's self. For either the Dom or the sub. I do believe that some actions are required or given specifically for pleasure and that the over all effect of all actions should be positive.
ReplyDeleteI do from time to time request something of h she does not enjoy in the moment. The over all effect is positive though.
Sir J, The concept that not everything must be enjoyable to be beneficial is something that I have been musing about for a while.
DeleteIt was not my intent to imply that in my post--I believe that symbiosis is about mutual need, and needs are not always pleasure. I got a bit sidetracked with the whole pain thing lol.
Not so much about the actions themselves as it is about the effects of those actions?
Apologies this is a long one
ReplyDeleteMy Master is a sadist and therefore enjoys inflicting pain on me, he loves it even more when im struggling with it and i want it to stop...this by many would be considered abuse.
Im masochistic in the sense that pain within a controlled environment arouses me, s&m plays a large part in our dynamic but by no means is the most important element.
You might need more than coffee to understand what i will try to explain lol
The best way to explain is in a scenario....he has a particular single tail which he uses on my back, i dont like it, it hurts a lot, i struggle, i beg for him to stop, nevertheless im dripping wet and have on odd occassions climaxed during this sort of whipping but yet at the time its happening i really want it to stop although my body says differently.
Its afterwards where i get my pleasure, im on a high, i guess you could say i revel in my sufferring, i love sufferring for his pleasure and this in turn really gives me a lot of satisfaction. I love to be pushed past my comfort zone, and he certainly enjoys taking me there.
He has always stated that he would not hurt or push someone that does not desire it, they have to want it, to crave it even and i do, and he knows me well enough to use good judgement. He may do things to me that i dont enjoy in that moment but i do enjoy giving him those moments.
tori x
tori, no apology necessary.
DeleteWhat you say does make sense. It was not my intention to imply that symbiosis requires an even or action to be pleasurable--only that it fills a mutual need. As I said to Sir J, I got a bit sidetracked with the whole pain thing as it was not the original intent of my post lol.
For Alpha, the more pain he hears, the more he wants to inflict. And I don't always enjoy it, but it does get me off in a certain way. As you said, it's very much about being taken outside one's comfort zone.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
lil, you don't give yourself enough credit. I agree with Tamar that this post was perfect!
ReplyDeleteMaybe not every little moment needs to have the fluid exchange that you're describing, especially when testing limits and boundaries. But if the overall relationship doesn't have that circle of feeding each other's needs, desires, wants, etc then it'll never work.
simplyHis, I don't know if it's even possible for every moment to have that fluid exchange. But as you say, in the overall picture of a relationship the cycle is very important.
DeleteWith coffee or without, i like the way your mind works. i think you're right on target.
ReplyDeleteAnd just personally, it's good for me to know that you and Alpha had to grow into him liking to inflict pain.
thanks,
aisha
aisha, we did have to grow into it. I always had a masochistic streak that he would occasionally oblige. Even though, I think he didn't really "get" or like it.
DeleteThen we discovered ttwd and he started letting go more. Then things changed about how each of us felt about it--he liked and had a few "oh shit, what have I let out of the cage" moments.
Very good example of D/s dynamics.
ReplyDeletesensualfreak, thank you.
DeleteYou're "a beneficial parasite in a symbiotic relationship," right? :)
ReplyDeleteConina, lol. Exactly! How could I have left the beneficial parasite bit out.
DeleteIt is a perfect description lil. Our mutually sustaining circle gets broken when one of us doubts it - that kills the whole thing. Sadly - that's usually me - you would think i would learn.
ReplyDeleteAnd to tori - that's a great description - and i don't think it's really so hard to relate to. People put themselves through all sorts of discomfort/pain/distress of varying degrees because they want the overall result (e.g., getting waxed, running a marathon, watching emotionally difficult movies....) It is a different level of pain, true, but how much better to make it also a mutual thing, a connecting and in the end very rewarding thing.
gg, hmmm, yea, it's usually me that doubts it here too.
DeleteWe learn!
Some lessons just take longer than others I think...
"in the beginning, I liked receiving pain and he would give it. But only because I liked it. Not because he enjoyed inflicting it. Then as time went by, he discovered that he liked giving it."
ReplyDeleteLoved. This.
This is exactly how Sir and I operate. He used to not enjoy inflicting pain, but found that I could enjoy it. And he enjoyed my enjoying it, and in turn he found that he now looks forward to it, and he has gotten more into it! I only hope that I can have a reciprocal experience for him.
Lea, I was going to try and respond to all of your comments, but my computer isn't being agreeable, lol.
DeleteIt's interesting how very circular ttwd is isn't it? For it's particular balance of power, it is kind of like a self-supporting little ecosystem of its own.
No worries. I was playing major catch up here, and can just imagine your inbox (and everyone else's lol)
DeleteI love that self supporting ecosystem idea, especially because I work in the science and nature sector!
Lea, I appreciate that you took so much time going back through my ramblings!
Delete